Why We Treat Joy As Later

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Dear listeners, today I want to definitely start with something I'd say strange. Not strange. I mean, here's a strange habit, I would say, almost all of us share. Like we treat happiness like it's somewhere up ahead. Like after the goal, after milestones, after things that finally settle down. And while we are waiting, like a hundred small, small moments of joy pass us by. Yeah. And which definitely unnoticed as well. So the warmth of that first sip of coffee, kind of, right? It's a patch of light on the wall. Maybe the love that we're laughing right now. And a breath, a quiet moment that was actually quietly enough, obviously. And we keep postponing joy to some future that never quite arrives, right? And we miss the small moments, the small joy that that was here for all along, right? We just think for the future, but we're not thinking about the present, the small moments. So today we are going to talk about that. So welcome back to another powerful episode of Mind Meets Machine. I'm your host, Avik, and today's conversation is, I'd say it's very, it's very important one. Yeah, because we are talking about like why we delay our own happiness, right? I mean, it's it's a great thing to think about. Like how we overlook the small moments of the joy right in front of us and what actually happens or what generally changes when we start paying attention to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

So if you have ever felt like you are waiting for life to begin, then this conversation is for you. And in this journey, today I have a very lovely guest with us. And my guest brings a beautifully unusual lens to all of this. So please welcome Ulrika Torquato. So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Amazing. Amazing. So so dear listeners, like before we uh get into the discussion, I quickly love to introduce you with Ulrika. So she explores like how we postpone happiness by overlooking our daily joy, our every time that the small moments we have, right? And and created a simple practice and an app called Joying Around It. Yeah. So with the background spanning medicine and opera, and now studying the palliative care psychology. So she helps people build a more honest connection to what truly matters. Yeah. So it'll not take much of a time because there are a lot of things to discuss with her. So let's get started. And welcome to the show again. Thank you.

unknown 2:19

Thank you.

The Myths That Delay Happiness

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Amazing, amazing. So, Ulrika, like I definitely want to start with this idea of I mean, which is definitely the main core of your work. And I think it it names something most of us that do without realizing it. We delay the happiness. And we treat it as like something that comes later. And once conditions are perfect for me. So what do you think? Like, why do people most get wrong about happiness? Like about why we keep postponing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Well, there are many factors, I think. And this that we postponed because we think we need to earn it, we need to be good enough, or we have to do something that we had once an idea of. So I have to when I'm going to be married, or when I'm going to be famous, or when, when, when, then I can be happy.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

That's is a very common way. Another way is also like we always want that that something has to be different. It's like, yeah, it's never enough. So, okay, I I could be happy today if the world were perfect. Or if my friend didn't tell me that yesterday. Or if so, that's also a way to delay our happiness. And another way is like it doesn't count because we are so used to it. We had it yesterday, it's going to be there tomorrow. We think that's going to be there tomorrow. Maybe it's not going to be there. But we So we overlook. That can be a big problem. That's we are talking now. It's not only the happiness the problem. It can be also really the feeling of being alive that's is never there.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Very true. Yeah. I mean, so if you also see like when when someone realizes that they have been delaying their own joy, what begins? I mean, what begins to shift for them?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

I think that all these small moments that happen during our day are moments that we really like. They are like maybe a special food, or maybe we go for a walk in the nature, or maybe we buy something that we like. There are many things. It can be thousands of things. And it's not about the thing in only about that thing. It's about us. Because when we really connect, when we take the time, two seconds, to notice, to really think, wow, I'm leaving this moment now. I'm letting this moment go inside of me. Then I have a feeling in myself that I will only have when I really am open enough to see what I'm doing. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

So and obviously, it is very, very true. And I think definitely a lot of people who are listening right now have spent years and years waiting for that joy to arrive, obviously, and and just heard that it it might have been here all the time, right? So that is that is very important, I

Death Awareness As A Life Practice

SPEAKER_00 5:25

believe. And also, like if you just go uh deep into this, there is something uh originate about that path is the move towards the uh palliative care psychology. So and we tend to overlook the small jars, like I was being saying, uh we assumed that uh there's a lot of time, there is endless time, right? And big things matter the most. So, in that sense, what's the deeper pattern that you see in why we miss those small moments that surely in front of us only we can see, but we just miss those.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Yes, we miss them because we think we are going to live forever. Yes, that's maybe the most important factor. Of course, when people are dying when they know they don't have some so much time, maybe a couple of days or months, then things change and then they maybe get more aware of of the small things. And then you can also think that oh, I have missed uh a big deal of my life just to striving and doing things. Wow, many would really go back and live again in another way.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

So exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So I mean uh I mean has walking near the end of life changed like what you noticed in your own days?

SPEAKER_02 6:55

Yes, you mean working with this, uh studying, yeah. It's like I think when we think about death, we are thinking about life. And if we never think about death, we think that it doesn't exist. It's like, no, that is not. We don't live. It's it's really it's it's we we really we need to talk more about this, that we are going to die so we can live more, more fully, more present, more happy. Yeah, we we get happier because we we know that's not forever, and this idea of being forever, it that's only in our minds. We can see around us, people are dying, and animals die, and life that's life. It's like that's a cycle. So to have this idea that we are going to live forever is really a protection from from life, strange and yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Correct, correct, yeah. So and like I think that's the piece most of us avoid looking at because it asks us to value what we have now instead of what we are teasing. And I guess there's a difference in I mean, there's that uh wisdom in letting that reshape our ordinary day. So

What Small Joy Reveals About You

SPEAKER_00 8:10

when I say ordinary day, like in our day day-to-day life, which is definitely really what your joining practice is all about, for someone who is listening, who feels like they rush through their days and miss that joy in them, what do these small moments uh most often hide like in our daylight, day-to-day life?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, they hide what we really are, what we really think about our lives. Because when we are rushing, going to the future and or thinking about the past, but we are never present. We are reading the news, we are doing things, we are getting information, but we are not hearing what comes really from our hearts. And strangers, when we really connect to this small moment, it can be a coffee, a good cake, but it's it's part of us because if they matter, if they make us feel good, there is something to see. Not that we're going to be uh cake eaters. That's not like that's not what I mean. I mean really we connect to this kind of joy that it's a wisdom inside. Yes, yes, yes. So it's so important. It's so much more than only feeling happy and joy. It's about ourselves, what we are. And then we will maybe think about something that we would like to do, but in a meaningful way. It can be very different because it's going to be something that really is important for us. Not just something that we took from outside. Like we are scrolling in Instagram, then we see all these cool people, and we think I want to have this too. But maybe it's not part of you because it's not important in your life. It's not really important. So it's it's a discovery, that's a journey to really see what we really love.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah, exactly. And obviously that that works, that really works. And so far so what is the one small thing that someone could do today to actually notice and hold on to one one of those moments?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Maybe you can go for a walk and instead to to be doing something else, listening to music or something, or thinking about your problems, just look around and see and let what is outside go inside of you and feel it. It's a feeling. It's a feeling of it's a feeling that is different to of what is going in our minds. Because our minds is always busy and saying, Oh, you should do this and that and that, and then suddenly you look, you see a bird or you see a tree or a flower, and see the flowers. Listen to this beautiful song from this bird and really take it in. So it's you will see that's not your mind. It's different. It's something else, it's so much deeper.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

Exactly, exactly. So I mean what you're saying is that small shift in attention, noticing then something that is woven into a completely ordinary day. And yeah, exactly. I think a lot of people listening could start that today. And yeah, I mean, very small moments also, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:14

And very common moments. They don't need to be big moments or something special. Wow, today it's a big day. No, every day is a big day, but we need to to see.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yes, yeah, yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

So like and I think uh I think uh about the heart of your work, like not one-time realization, but the actual practice of noticing joy over

A Simple Noticing Practice Anywhere

SPEAKER_00 11:40

the time. And you build joying around exactly on this. So for someone who wants to stop delaying happiness and they want to build a more honest and joy-aware way of living, then what is the approach that you would point them towards?

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Well, that is something that we can do right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, yeah, no. It's just you you stop there and then you see, oh, is there something around me in this moment that I can have a good feeling about? And that's always going to be. And if it's not, you're not looking. Because it can be a color, it can be a texture, it can be a sound, a smell, it can be something. And there is always something. It it doesn't need to be something big. So yeah, you you don't need to to to do it the whole time. You you have a life that is going, it's busy, okay. But sometimes when you remember, do it. When you're waiting for the bus, when you are doing something, don't reach for the mobile at the first moment you have of freedom. First, look around, see, feel, remember. Everything that's beautiful, it's yours and has a meaning for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Correct, correct. That's interesting. And for the person who hears this thinks I'm so busy and stressed, I don't even know like how to notice my joy anymore. So where do they start?

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Yeah, the strange thing is no one is so busy that they cannot uh notice joy. Because maybe when you're going to sleep, okay, you're lying in your bed. And then instead of listening to your mind, you just think, is there something beautiful now in my life, now that I'm laying in my bed? Yes, maybe it's comfortable. Wow, yes, I love my kissing, it's good. It's just small things, and that's already enough just to connect to this feeling of of enjoying, of feeling.

unknown 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Right, exactly. That actually reframes something for me because the way you say it, like like joy is not something that you have to prepare or you have to chase for. It is something within us only which we definitely need to see, need to feel, need to focus on. And yeah, I mean, definitely. So until noticing becomes natural. So yeah. And one more part, which I believe honestly, most I mean, nobody just talks about is like even someone learns to notice the joy, but life pulls them back into that rush because they have a habit, right? The stress again comes back, the business takes over, and that old habit again comes back, right? So you leave uh you live close to the uh these bees in a in a day-to-day life. So, how do you find your way back to noticing those small moments when life

Finding Joy Without Toxic Positivity

SPEAKER_00 14:30

gets heavy and you just slip into delay again and again?

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Yeah, it's it's really attention. You need you need to know that it's good for you. Maybe you're going to do it. But it's like that's normal that life sometimes is difficult, and we have our problems, and we have really bad days, and things happen that are not good. I I don't agree that we need to to try to make everything positive and this toxic toxic posity. No, it's bad, but we try to make it good. No, it's bad, it's bad. There are feelings, there are difficult times, we have difficult times, everybody has. But even there, if you remember to look, you will find something that gives you joy. But you you have to let it in. It's like life will never be perfect enough, so you will going to have all the old time to to take it in. No, no, no. And that's strange because really when when the life is difficult, we will see how much is also in our minds. That's not always the reality. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Okay. So, like, would you what would you say to someone who feels that they have completely lost that ability to feel that joy in their daily life?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yes, yeah. It's a practice. It's a practice. And you will feel that when you connect to these small things, because they are, they are. Maybe you drink coffee, maybe you don't like coffee, then you drink a cup of tea, but just taste it. It's enough to feel the taste. And maybe you're going to cry too, because you're going to find something else inside of you that's not coming out. So life is difficult. They are we we are so complex, there are so many things. But this kind of joy that we can get from the small moments are so much alive than other kind of joy that we can get because we got something that we really wanted. Because after two hours we are already chasing for something else. Yeah. But this kind of joy that I'm talking about is something we can find every day. We don't need conditions.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

We don't need conditions, yeah. Exactly. And that's a practice, definitely. I I I definitely think because that is the one thing I I think people uh will carry home because the reminder that losing touch with the joy for a while doesn't mean it doesn't mean it's gone. And then that returning to noticing again and again is definitely practice. Definitely the practice, and it's a sign that you haven't failed it. Sorry? And it's a sign that you have kind of failed at it. Yeah. So so definitely. We love that. So if you have to give one advice to the listeners today, what that will be.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Remember that you are alive. You are really, really, and that life is a gift, and there are many, many gifts with this life gift. And then I mean all the beautiful stuff that's around us that we are not even thinking about. You know, maybe you have some a clothes, it's something, oh, you like to have it on your body. Then you wow, I feel it. Just two seconds. Wow, okay, I felt it. Wow. Yes, we are not feeling anymore. We are just being we are only feeling these mind thoughts, but really the the beautiful feelings that come with life.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Exactly. Exactly. Amazing.

Joyry App And Releasing The Moment

SPEAKER_00 18:00

And so I have to say, if listeners want to connect with you, what would be the great way to connect?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yes, they can go to my website, ulrikatorquato.com, then I'm going out uh making talks about this. So I'm making more speaking opportunities, engagements. And then you can also download my app. I made an app, it's called Joyry. So it's an app that you will find on joy.com. So it's a very small and easy app just for to help us notice what is happening around us. That's a grid with different categories, think that happens in our lives. So when something beautiful happens, we can click on an icon and then a small butterfly is going to appear, and we are going to collect this butterfly in a jar until we reach 21. And then we have the possibility of releasing them. So they are going to fly and we are begin to collect our joy again. Because it's very important that we know that all this joy is present, it's something we can see, take inside, but then we need to release because there is nothing we can hold on.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Hold it.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

No, no, it's going, it's a cycle. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Exactly. Exactly. It's a life cycle and everything needs to go. Nothing is permanent. So definitely. I really love that. Thank you so much, Udrika. Thank you.

One Breath Closing Reminder

SPEAKER_00 19:28

I mean, I say that there's there's something quietly moving about being reminded that the joy we keep waiting for is already there. And it's those in those all small, small moments in our daily life. So I think a lot of people will look at their daily life after this for sure. And please do that, dear dear listeners. And uh and I'd say like don't walk past this, just pause for one breath and let yourself actually feel it.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

So that's not a small thing. So that might be the whole thing, I'd say. It's not as a whole thing. So with this hope, this is your whole servic and this is Mind Meets Machine. I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Thank you.