Why AI Might Be Changing Us

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah listeners. You know, like there is a question that keeps coming up lately, like in the boardrooms and living rooms and like. So we build the systems to help us think faster, decide better, live more effectively. But somewhere along the way we start to wonder, like, if we are still the ones doing the deciding if the tools we create to extend our humanity might be quietly reshaping what it means to be human in the first release. It's not uh it doesn't worry anymore. It's kind of I'd say here. So it is the algorithms that suggest what we read, the assistance that finish our sentences. Assistance making calls we used to make ourselves. And most of us are just trying to keep up with it without a map for what comes next. I'm a hosa week, and you're listening to My Name is Machine, and this is where we slow down and ask the questions that we don't have easy answers. So where we explore not just what technology can do, but what it does to us and what we want to become alongside it. And today I'm joined by a very, very lovely guest. Please welcome Dr. Christopher Benex. Welcome to the show. Thank you, thank you for having me. Amazing, amazing. Thank you so much for joining us here. And let's just say before we get into the discussion and quickly introduce you with Dr. Christopher. So he's an AI ethicist, futurist, and organizational leader whose ma I mean I'd say the work sits right at the intersection of the emerging technology and the human flourishing. That's really great that we'll get to know a lot of things from him. So stay with us and that's

AI As Mirror Not Neutral Tool

SPEAKER_01 1:56

it. So Dr. Christopher, like and there is this belief that I mean that it's become almost a reflex right now, like that AI is neutral, that it's just a tool we pick up and use however we want. But you have spent years looking at like how these systems actually shape us. What is the biggest misconception you think people have or people hold about AI's role in their lives?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Well, particularly on the issue of neutrality, AI really is more of a a mirror that reflects who we are. And uh it it can heighten our abilities in some ways, but it can also heighten our prejudices in others. And and we've seen this in in many examples. It it's if you kind of leave AI to its own devices, a lot of times it will go wrong, and people are really surprised as to why it starts saying racist things or it starts profiling people. Well, it doesn't come up with that from itself, it comes up with it for the data that's put put into it. And so I think one of the things that as we as we use AI more and more, we need to be conscious of how we are programming and and what we are programming for, but but not only that, who is doing the programming? And do we have representation from people that that believe different things, that uh look differently, that are from different cultures, that have different experiences of the world, so that there's a representation of humanity within within the uh the processes of AI. I I think the other the other thing is is there's a big misconception is that you can either use AI or not use AI. And and I and I think there's a lot of people who who think that they can just escape using AI, and and that's just because they don't understand how pervasive AI is in our lives. Like even our conversation now is using automation to be able uh for us to communicate across the world to one another. And so it it's in everything we do. The question becomes what are benign types of AI that help to facilitate our work and and uh shape us less, and and what are more formative kinds of AI that actually change our worldview as we use them? Uh and and we shape them as we use them as well, because it's a two-way thing. If when we use LLMs, we are interacting with the LLM in a way that it's bringing in data, and the person who's not interacting with it is not giving it data. And so the LLM's worldview, so to speak, uh begins to be shaped by by the data that we've given, given it. And and that's excludes other others' important perspectives. So I think part of what we have to do is teach people not to be afraid to use the technology, that but but to understand that we have to be educated so that we can make formative choices. And that means, I think very uh importantly, you said where we slow down and begin uh to think about things to so to slow down and begin to say, well, what choices am I making? Why am I making them? And once you come up with some of that foundational information, then it allows you to actually actually expedite processes uh with confidence, uh, but uh but not without uh without continuing to check them. So it's gonna be really important that we always continue to check and to go back and to say, why are we doing what we're doing? And I think this is a fundamental element of being human that you know throughout humanity, for some reason we've kind of shelved and and kind of put our agency aside and how important it is every decision that we make. And so now AI is really bringing that to the forefront and and really putting it in front of us for us to be responsible uh about our actions and and and how we use this technology.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I agree. I mean it's totally, totally correct. And so like if if if it's not a kind of neutral, if it's I'd say actively shaping the choices that we think we are making freely, right? So what do you think? I mean, where does that show up most powerfully in ways like people didn't

How Social Media Shapes Beliefs

SPEAKER_01 6:28

notice?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Well, I mean, the obvious one is like social media, right? People are scrolling and they don't realize, and and this has been happening for I mean, decade now, uh plus you know, decades, it where people, their algorithm is shaping how they're engaging with content. So, for example, meta, a lot of times people when Facebook first came out, they just thought that you know, the information they were were getting. Well, because look, let's we first we should say like anytime there's a new technology, there are good elements of it. There's something that can be used in it. Even things that people don't have a good intent for sometimes have a good element that hasn't been brought out of it. But but Facebook, for example, Facebook was transformative and how it started to connect people globally. And that that hadn't happened before. Before when you would go to you would graduate from high school, you might not ever see your classmates ever again. There were you might come back in 10 years for a reunion or 20 years for a reunion. But but the reality was is that the communities were spreading out and people weren't seeing one another, and Facebook helped to unite that. What people didn't realize is the way that Facebook was being monetized was was keeping you on the platform to sell ads. So part of the way that that that happened was uh through essentially using automated information that would that was you were voluntarily by using the platform, giving Facebook, and then it would give you back, it would reflect back to you a version of an echo chamber, but just in but with just enough grit to keep you engaged. So sometimes I think when they started, there were a lot of there was a lot of outrage on on Facebook, uh, but then they realized actually outrage gets people to quit and to leave. So you you can't have as much outrage. You have to have something that it's controversial enough that people will stay and believe that they can change the situation by continuing to uh converse with people about it. The challenge with that is I think anybody who's been on social media, any social media, will will quickly concede the fact that very few times have you gone on social media and had your opinion wildly changed by somebody. You when you go into those conversations, most of the time the conversation doesn't change what you believe. You're looking for something that reinforces what you believe. And and this becomes a a challenge because what's happening then is formatively we end up in in circles that are like our own, as opposed to shaping conversations in new ways. So what is fascinating is we have access to way more information than we used to have access to. But what's interesting about that is people that that alone is not enough to transform people's perspectives, right? So so what we've learned from the AI is it will reinforce will we'll will it'll reinforce our our bias, it'll reinforce things that we grew up with that we we believe. And and really where we have then responsibility is to go and say, okay, well, how do I change this conversation so that I'm actually learning something as opposed to just telling people things all the time. And and I think this is a fundamental shift where somebody can go on social media, for example, and they can shake they can change their posture how they address people. They can address people with humility. So, for example, if you and I were to disagree on something, right? My assumption would be, well, maybe you have something that that I need to know, you know, and and and if I'm humble about that, maybe if we disagree, and I'm assuming in good faith, you're uh you're acting in good faith. We're not trying to fight each other, right? Well, then then my job is to say, well, what is it that he sees that I don't see? And vice versa, what is it that I see that you don't see? And usually the truth is somewhere in the middle, right? That is not something AI is gonna necessarily get you to when the AI, the automation of it, and the whole system that goes uh towards marketing to you is geared to keep you there, right? Because if we find the thing in the middle, we might get off the platform altogether and go do the new thing that we were gonna do together, right? And so, so these are things for us to just be aware of, and they're right in front of our eyes most of the time. We just have to, we just have to become aware of them. And and then it also would say I I've noticed like I don't spend as much time on social media anymore. And and maybe that's I'm just getting older, but I think uh hopefully I'm getting a little wiser as I go to realize, you know, I'm not actually growing by engaging in social media. It doesn't mean that there's I won't ever learn anything or I won't whatever, but but what I found now is it's it's fascinating. It's like now I'm using my AI to fact check to see if other AI is correct, right? And then I'll use another AI to check and fact check if that is correct. The great news is that we have these ability to fact-check because you know there was a time, and I remember in my life where when pre-internet, uh, you just would believe someone in your community who uh, you know, acted with more authority, right? And so so it is it's a good thing, I think, that we have this these new levels of accountability with one another. But part of it is it doesn't mean that we don't have to steward those technologies uh in intentionally, and and I think that's something that people tend to forget.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Interesting, really interesting, I'd say. And I mean it's if I say like it's unsettling when you realize it, because the other thing you thought was just helping you think might be quietly changing like how you think. So I mean, I understand. So I mean if you just go deeper into it, like when you work with the leaders or the organizations who are just trying to navigate this, what do you think are the most I mean the the root patterns like that you see, like the different forces uh at play that makes this so hard to get right.

Ethical Leadership Beyond Profit

SPEAKER_01 12:48

What do you think on this?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Well, I I think part of it is is that we've uh thought about technology from the standpoint of monetizing technology and and as as opposed to bettering humanity. And and I personally think that we need to make things sustainable. So I have no problem with people making a profit off of something. But the the question is, is when the profit from it begins to supersede the need to actually be helpful to people, then then it becomes more challenging. And and kind of our baser nature of who we are tends to come out with that. So I'm sure we could create a real peaceable social media. Like if you and I got together and we went and got some investors, we could have someplace that has a no drama policy and that could be enforced. But but the truth is that humans tend to gravitate towards drama. There's a reason it's the media is not so sensationalized because the media is just evil. The media is actually responding to the market, right? They're trying to actually they're trying to get us engaged with what they're doing, and that's why they're sensational. And uh and so the question is is the fundamental issue that we're dealing with actually a product of the system, or is it a product of us? Like, and at a very base level, it means that individuals have to begin to choose to make good decisions. So, you know, I I have a nonprofit that deals with the intersection of technology and religion, but I'm also a pastor of a church. Interestingly, I'm a pastor in Brickle in Miami, which is the finance and the tech hub of Miami. So I have many, many tech technologists that go to our church. We have people from all over the world that have moved now to Miami. It's become this, it's people moving from San Francisco and New York. And one of the things that that I find is people will come in and they ask questions about whether they should stay with companies that they're in because they're in the company and the company makes a decision and they're like, I'm not sure this decision is ethical. Pastor, what should I do? And and so my response is, well, is if you leave, will the company get better? And usually they say no. And they say, okay, and you're being paid well. I mean, I have 20-something year old people that are making like $250,000 a year plus uh where they're at. They're making incredible money for someone their age, uh, by most people's standards. And and I said, So look, you make good money, like be a good steward of your money, right? But plan for your future. Don't go do crazy things. But at the same time, when you're going in and you're asking questions, think about how you can shape the conversation so it looks for the welfare of people, right? Because I fully believe that actually a better market product is is one that serves more people well. And over time, as people create products that serve people well, in this age of AI, building trust with people is going to be really important. If you think about now who you trust, like what news source do you just really trust? There aren't many. And and why that is, is because reporters tend to sell out to the lowest common denominator of getting clicks on their story, as opposed to taking a lifetime of investing in people and building credibility. That is the long haul. It's the marathon, not the sprint. Um, but I think long term, what that's gonna require is it's gonna require people to begin making lifetimes of decisions that are that are healthy decisions that look to benefit other people. And and I think that is a real challenge for companies because companies have investors, they have uh that you know, they have uh employees, they need to make money to a certain level. And sometimes doing the thing that's better for people isn't always the thing that's gonna make you the most money. But I will say I think it is short term, long term. I do think investing in people long term and building a reputation of being a company that somebody can trust uh or being an organization that somebody can trust, I actually think that is the way that we're gonna see we're gonna see the world start to lean.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

So and like most people who are listening are I mean, are not building AI systems, but they are living with them, right, every day.

Automation Everywhere Plus The Equity Gap

SPEAKER_01 17:30

So, how does this actually show up in their daily life? Like in our small moments and where we might not even realize that we are being uh shaped.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yeah, so I mean everything you do and that has some that is digital at this point has an automation in it, which means it has some kind of AI agent in it. Now, the question is, how much is that impacting what you're doing? Facebook, a good example. What I've seen is now they're longer reels. This seems to be a recent thing. Uh they have more and more ads, right, in it. And what I'm finding is I'll I'll watch halfway through something and I'll get so sick of the ads that I won't watch it anymore. So my bet is, I don't know that this will happen, but my bet is if you go uh you know nine months from now, Facebook will change their policy on how many ads they're gonna put in a in a video because the reality is is they're gonna see that they have disengagement because they're oversaturating the market, right? So that's like an easy thing where you see anything with it with the digital thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

I think and when when you have a uh very tough competition, like Chat GPTs also have started bringing their ads, right? So it is also a direct competitor right now for meta-ads. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah, and there's gonna be more and more pressure because what we're gonna see is a lot of these companies uh they don't really have like like Facebook actually has a way to make money, but a lot of these AI companies that they don't actually have real economic systems, which is which is why it's interesting, like particularly like as people invest in the stock market and things like that. Like I have a bunch of investors where I'm at. It's like understanding what AI systems actually have a product, like a real product that is marketable, because you can have a product but that isn't gonna make any money and doesn't actually advance things, and and that long term, I I wouldn't invest in. If I don't know what the product actually is, I wouldn't invest in it. But but on the day-to-day basis for people, you know, people don't realize that everyone that they're engaging with is using these systems. Like they're all everyone's using these systems. And so before somebody asks you a question about whatever your expertise is or whatever your business, they've already asked Chat GBT or Claude or Grok or whoever, and and they've they have they've formed an opinion. The AI has helped them to form an opinion before they come to you, right? So dismissing AI as if as if it's not gonna impact you if you don't use it, it is a wildly, you know, false kind of paradigm to put yourself in. Really, what we're gonna have in the future is human, it's not humans versus machines. It's it's really a human with a machine versus a human without a machine. And and that's that's really what's happening. And part of this becomes a whole nother conversation, then, is to say, well, what's actually fair, right? What actually creates equity for people? Uh, Chat GBT, you can have levels of subscription that literally gives you the ability to do more and produce more than other people. But if you can't afford that basic level, even just the basic thing, then your usage is limited, and then your competition is already ahead of you. And so part of this, and nobody's having that conversation to say, well, how is it that we're maintain we're creating equity? So, in some ways, this is a little bit of like the technologically rich get richer and the technologically poor get poorer. And I think we we have to be really careful when we engage with that, because like even where I am, where there are a lot of wealthy people, there are also a lot of people that don't have wealth. There are a lot of people that are in debt or they're living, you know, hand to mouth, they're just they're they're they just happen to live in a really wealthy place, but it costs them a lot of money to live here and they're not making an advantage. And and that's a place that's wealthy. And then you go to the majority of the world, and those places aren't. And so there's a disadvantage. Uh, and and we start looking at this at schools, right? If a school has access to this and schools don't have access to this, if your children have access to it, my son uses AI for everything all the time, and the truth is. Is I didn't even know he was using it. He just started using it. Like he started on his own using it. You know, I don't know if he heard dad talk about AI so much that he decided, hey, this must be a thing. But he's using it. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, wait, how? Because he's starting to talk to me about things. And I'm like, how do you even know about that? And it's like, oh, well, I, you know, I looked it up on Google and Google AI gave me this. Like, I'm like, oh man. So, so no conversation that you have anymore is neutral. There is not such a thing. The other thing is, is there's this whole movement now where I see they're going to do this with Claude, where they're going to put like a digital stamp on the back of your work effectively to say that you used AI. But I I think this is this is an over response to AI to AI. I think we got to be careful not to demonize AI. AI is not the problem at this point. That's not the problem. Humans are the problem, like, and we have to we have to make sure, and and humans don't like to hear that, but we've been the pro like when something goes wrong, it's humanity. The good news is when something goes right, it's usually humanity that's shifting it. And so so it's so fundamentally important that we're aware. And so what I tell people is to say, hey, go and engage your AI. Like use your AI to ask questions, to ask, ask, even you can go ask your AI, your LLM, and say, hey, how do you do you from what you know about me, how do I use AI? And what are things I need to be concerned about? Then go to another AI and take those answers and check the other AI and see, see, like try to learn the things that you don't know because you don't know what you don't know, right? And and it's you what's fantastic for us is we live in the best time in all of history to educate ourselves about how we use AI. Now, I'm not giving specific, I mean, I know what I'm saying here seems not very specific. It's like, well, go use AI. But you would be shocked how many people don't use AI to actually check themselves. They they use it to check their work, they use it to check a project that they're on, but they don't use it to check other things. Like, like if you haven't done it, use AI to check what your diet is and and start entering in and say, hey, how is how is my diet compared to where I am in my age? What about your exercise program?

Using AI To Improve Yourself

SPEAKER_00 24:39

I started last year. I ran, I was a runner when I was a kid. I'm 50 now, so I hadn't run for 25 years. And last year I ran a marathon, and and I did that because I created a training program using AI with the information I knew about me and put it in, and I had to tweak it back and forth. Uh, but it got me to the point where I could where I could do that. We have the opportunity to self-improve to uh uh in in that regard more than we've ever had before. And even people with limited access have access to things like YouTube, that you know, YouTube university, you can learn about anything. I never had worked on a car in my whole life, and I had someone who's probably 30 years younger than me teach me how to fix my Jeep Grand Cherokee, and uh, and I so I went and I fixed my my Jeep. It's the first time I've done it my whole life. But we have to stop being afraid to learn. And then we also we also need to begin to empower people so that they're not afraid to learn. Because I'm I'm I think this disruption is gonna shift how we think about who we are, what we do, what we're becoming, and how we learn about what we're becoming. And and all of those things will be shaped over time. And so if we're not very intentional about it, uh it's this is something where in in a very real way you're gonna you can wake up and you can like I have colleagues that don't use AI at all, and I can visibly see how far behind they are on things because they've not learned to adapt on this. And so helping people to learn to do that, and I and I'm not convinced that you know, people say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Uh well, I'm getting to be an old dog and I've learned some new things, you know? And so uh so it's like so part of part of it is is us staying, you know, curious and asking good questions and not being afraid, continuing to participate in the systems that are evolving around us, but not being afraid of them either. Uh, because uh because these these are manageable and they're things that uh people can work at a little at a time and get better and better and better, but radically improve their lives doing so.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Very true. And also, like uh I'll I'll just ask you one more thing is because uh we are talking about this AI part and all.

Handling Setbacks Without Quitting

SPEAKER_01 26:58

So, like here is the very hard part is like someone uh makes that choice and they start being more intentional and then life gets busy again and again. So the default again comes back, right? So, how do you handle those setbacks? Like, how do you sustain this kind of uh awareness over the time when the world is designed to pull you back and kind of into autopilot?

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah, I think I think that's a great question. One thing that we as humans tend to do is we tend to get discouraged easily. And and I think part of this is a persistence and having a drive uh and realizing that if you uh if you kind of get knocked off on knocked off track, the whole it's not about being on track all the time. It's about consistently being on track enough that it starts changing your trajectory. And as your trajectory starts changing, then you get better and better and better. The the other challenge is people try to do everything all at once. You know, it's like they decide they're just gonna hook right into neural net, jump in the matrix and and start being Neo or something. Actually, I all I was trying to do was walk. I was trying to walk that long. And so then I started running and I would run 30 seconds at a time because my body, after 25 years of not running, it couldn't, I'd get shin swints, I'd have all these problems. And then I get where my leg was sore or it was hurt or whatever, and I'd I wouldn't be able to do something for two weeks. And then I'd have to come back. If I gave up, I would never get to the place where I'd be able to accomplish the goal. It's coming back and believing. And there are times, I'll tell you, I've been discouraged with it where I'm like, oh, I'm so tired and my legs aren't acting. And why are why am I so old now? You know, like what is going on? And but it's it's coming back to it and saying, you know, if I don't do this, how am I gonna get better? So like I'm in a PhD program, uh, maybe the longest PhD program in history. I've got really patient advisors, thank God. Uh, but you know, but people say, well, look, you're 50 years old. By the time you're done with this PhD, you're gonna be 52. You know, like you, you've been doing this forever. Like, why do this? And it's like, well, how old am I gonna be if I don't get the PhD? I'm still gonna be 52. I'm just not gonna have a PhD. I'm not gonna have learned the things that I'm not gonna have done the hard thing to help. So, so you know, it's I I'm not prescriptive. Like, in other words, I'm not saying, hey, here's what you should do. I I don't think that. Like in the book I wrote, I wrote uh a book called The Church Leader's Guide to AI. So the you can take the word church out and you can put whatever leader you want. If it you want to be a business leader, you want and the most valuable part of the book, in my opinion, is actually not the front part of it. There's a little study guide in the back, and it's just meant to get you to ask questions to say, what do you believe about this? It's not for me to tell you what to believe, it's for you to discover what you believe and discern what the path is for you to continue to pursue on. And so, and in that way, you you will do the things that you're called to and that you're passionate about, and and you have a far better chance of staying with those things. Not like I have friends that are like, I never want to run a marathon. Why are you doing that? You know, well, it's not about them, that's about me. And I'm not compete, I don't have any delusions. I'm gonna win a marathon. I don't have any like there's 40,000 people running with me. I'm I'm happy if I'm finished, you know. Like, but but but the thing is, is it's not about everyone else. It's about how can I do a hard thing and become a little bit better version of me, right? And and and that's the wonderful thing about this is AI really is giving us the chance to be better. And and if any if people don't hear anything else of what I said today, is like my hope would be choose time after time after time. Make the choice for yourself to be better, because because that will actually uh that will be something that will you'll see the reward of and it compounds over time.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I totally

Five Minutes A Day Of Practice

SPEAKER_01 31:07

agree. So if you have to give one advice to the listeners today, what will you give?

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I I I would say don't don't be discouraged um by AI, but but instead engage it and and be intentional about learning about it regardless of what your age is, where you are, intentional about learning a little bit more. And and as you're doing that, explore who you are in using it. So, you know, start start looking at your life. Like I've found a lot of people, for example, they don't have they don't have a financial plan for themselves. They they just they hide from it. Use AI, especially if you're young. Use it, but well, especially if you're old, like you you're gonna you have to have a financial plan. But if you're young, you have the ability to to actually set yourself up by doing tiny little micro investments in yourself over and over and over and over that will compound over time. And if you're older, it's not too late because then having the knowledge uh tells you what you are able to do and what you're not able to do. And that helps you to make choices more effectively and better. And so, so that exploration of self as you make decisions and engage AI, I would encourage people to do that on a regular basis and to be intentional about it because it's easy to go through to your earlier point. It's easier to kind of just go through the processes of life and not do a new thing, right? And and not kind of push yourself because you're just trying to keep up. But even if it's just five minutes a day and you go and you say, Hey, I'm gonna do a little research on uh, you know, how are my health patterns or how are my financial patterns or how are how am I like people who they take time to do everything else, but they don't take a time to rest, right? Get some evaluation from your AI in that and then work with your AI, co-create with your AI to help try something. And if it doesn't work, uh it doesn't work all at once, that's okay. Don't give up, don't be discouraged. Come back and iterate again. I can't tell you how many times I changed that marathon plan. Uh, I have like, you know, a gazillion, you know, Google Docs that were edited and edited and edited because I learned something new and I went and I said, hey, my body's doing this, and we didn't account for that. How do I change that? I never knew and I ran for years and years in my life. I never knew there was a difference on sneaker height and how much that impacts your legs. Now I can talk to you all day long about sneaker height because I've worked with an AI to figure out, well, what is the sneaker height that's ideal for my body? And that has changed how I run and it's changed what I'm doing. So that's a that's one example, but those there are those incremental things on all the different parts of our lives that that we can continue to get better. And if and if you do that five minutes a day, after a year, you will be able to articulate how you have grown as a person, like it because it's an intentionality, it's like working out. If you, you know, if you don't do it, you know, you're gonna go to the gym and it's gonna be rough for a few weeks. Uh, but once you start doing it regularly, you start to actually see that result of it. And so it it's being attentive to it, and and that would be my advice. Just continue to be attentive, don't be discouraged. Uh, you're you'll get there.

Book And Website Resources

SPEAKER_01 34:29

And if listeners wants to connect with you, how they can connect?

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Uh, they can go to my website, ChristopherBennick.com, and my my book, Church Leader's Guide to AI, is on Amazon and Audible and pretty much in every bookstore. And so uh have them check it out.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Amazing, that's really amazing. So, dear listeners, what I'll do is I'll put all the links, details, everything into the show notes for your easy reference.

Staying Awake As Tech Accelerates

SPEAKER_01 34:49

And I'll just say, like, uh technology will always move faster than wisdom, right? But that doesn't mean we have to kind of move with it at that speed, right? So thank you so much, Chris, for sharing this uh conversation and it's really really helpful, I would say. And for the listeners who are actually trying to build something or actually build into this, so and everyone who is listening right now, maybe we'll build a simulator. The question is not like whether AI will change us, but it already is. So the question comes is whether we will stay awake enough to guide that change to make sure the tools we build still serve the people that we want to become, right? So with this, this is your host a week and this is Mind Meets Machine, and I'll see you in the next one. Thank you so much.